February 11, 2006 at 6:07 pm · Edit
went to public school and I turned out Muslim. I think
the situation at home is more important than where they
go to school. I can certainly teach my children the basics
of Islam if thats all they are covering. Also, I think
sending kids to public schools teaches them how to interact
in society and not be seperatists. From what I hear Islamic
school still has dating, drugs, bad language, immorality,
etc. existent. Parents are fools to think otherwise.
was talking to Chantal Carnes about this issue and she
went to an all girls private school and really liked it.
She is not a fan of home schooling or Islamic schools.
February 11, 2006 at 6:59 pm · Edit
been trying to tell people this bit for years.
February 11, 2006 at 7:46 pm · Edit
experienced all three, with the conclusion of, it totally
depends on the person. to be in public school you need
a strong foundation and background in Islam to be able
to pull through; i'm convinced that if our immigrant parents
went to public schools with their children for one hour,
they would pull their kids out in a snap. same goes for
islamic high schools.
agree with you, islamic schools usually are better for
younger kids, to get the basics of Quran, Arabic &
Islamic studies down at least. The local islamic school
here used to boast about the higher academics and overall
"greatness" of their school but they never had
any graduates to base this off of. now, only 5 out of
20 graduates have actually accomplished something. everyone
else is taking forever to complete their bachelors degree,
as well as being rejected from pharmacy/law/med schools.
is for certain people who are able to learn from a book
and teach themselves. independant learning is something
not everyone can achieve..but if achieved, they leave
with great and usually accelerated results. Also the parents
have to be available 24/7, which is not soemthing most
parents these days can do.
kids who have been homeschooled/islamic schooled and go
to public high school are able to handle it alot better
and are at less risk to fall into "the evils"
of high school than kids who have been going to public
school their wholes lives
and usually they get alot
stronger in their islam because they're like, oh this
is why alcohol..drugs..premarital sex.. is haram.. and
plus theyre questioned about their beliefs and whatnot
so its makes them think
unlike islamic schools where
girls have no clue why they wear hijab and guys are just
February 12, 2006 at 12:06 am · Edit
wow, i went to islamic school from 3-8 too. what a coincidence,
which islamic school did you go to?
its seriously crazy in most islamic school in america.
the kids are completely weird, they're in the enviorment
of deen and there the way they are, its completely outragous.
i dont wanna give a bad name to islamic schools, this
is something that should be pointed out and discussed
don't know about girls domitories, but the boys islamic
school is just a mental home. the kids their are diluted,
they'll steal anything you have, especially if your a
newcomer, they'll suck your possesions like a mosquito.
and you don't even wanna know about how crazy they get
when you talk about girls, sheesh, i'm glad i'm outta
there. i'm hoping to study in south africa, do dua so
that i can. jaza khair
Soul Islamican said,
February 12, 2006 at 5:13 am · Edit
do you know anything about the Turkish schools in America?
Some brothers and sisters from the uni that I attend are
teachers in the US and other Turkish schools all around
brothers in the US say to my friends that they almost
prefer being a teacher in an African country, say, "Tanzania"
to being a teacher in the US because students in America
are really with bad morals. These poor Turkish teachers
say that their students swear at them at every class!
teachers are all traditional Hanafi Muslims with great
respect for tasawwuf. They follow ustad Fethullah Gulen
(see en.fgulen.com). They're really selfless young brothers
who postpone marriage and all their life just for the
sake of spreading true Islamic morals around the world.
May Allah bring their selfless efforts to full fruit and
reward them in both worlds. Amin.
February 12, 2006 at 1:25 pm · Edit
believe I can give a perspective on this for Islamic schooling
in highschool. I went to a public school from 1st to 8th
grades, and since the Islamic schools in St. Louis only
go to 8th grade, I got into a private college prep highschool.
The classes weren't IB, just mostly AP. The education
I got there was clearly superior to any I'd had previously
or after. And on top of that, physical fitness and art
were emphasized, two things that never were at any Islamic
school. Then my parents decided to bring us to Florida
so we could go to Islamic highschools. My first year at
one here, I was forced to retake geometry - I was not
offered Algebra 2 - because my peers were only taking
geometry. Additionally, I had to retake biology, and remember
getting 120%'s on everything without studying. I had a
lot of fun though, and really made friends for life, something
that I just couldn't seem to do at the private prep school.
Being both the "new" person and the only hijabi
and being from a lower income family. I couldn't relate
to my peers at all. I guess because I couldn't, I didn't
even try and was able to keep my identity intact. Then
junior year, I was switched to another Islamic highschool,
and it was almost the same scenario. They were in a rush
to graduate us early so there was no SAT prep or the idea
of us going to college outside of USF or anything, and
the only type of education they were giving us was to
meet standards (i.e. 4 years of english, so we doubled
up that year), 4 years of history, so I took an additional
class after school where we didn't even read the book,
just listened through the conspiracy theories of our teacher,
and I took a written test to have me pass through a math
course. And in the math class I was taking, because half
of the students had to learn at a slower pace, we were
sectioned into two groups, and the teacher taught the
"slower" group and a student taught us, which
really of course turned into goofing off. I wouldn't say
that this is any worse than most public schools, because
at least we had teachers who cared. So, I will not argue
that Islamic school produces dumber people than other
schools. It just does not allow adavanced students to
meet their potential or prepare them for college adequately
(in terms of admission and testing). I think the work
and study ethic is strong though, and that is what most
adequately prepares students for college. For example,
I recall studying more in highschool than I do in college.
But that's USF.. and that's a whole other bag of worms.
It should be noted though, my husband and brothers went
to public schools, and they turned out better than me
At least in public school systems, when you have a bright
child who is eager to succeed, they have programs available
to meet that need. Anyway, what a ramble, that's my life
story. THanks for listening. The end.
Ibraheem Shakfeh said,
February 12, 2006 at 6:23 pm · Edit
went to the same Islamic School Danya went to and I can
testify to the same thing. There was nothing even resembling
professionalism. I went to a different school for 7th
grade and I was completely unprepaired. That was a small
private school so I was able to get away with a lot of
things but then I went to a larger public school and I
narrowly managed to get out of a world of trouble. I think
the irony is that I probably learned more Islam during
public school than in Islamic school as the result of
two (yes, only two) deen-intensive programs and a suhba.
This totals to about 4 months of intensive studying (I
took a few classes in here and there too but nothing else
worth mention aside from a weekly dars which I'll talk
about later). Ideally, you leave an Islamic school at
least knowing basic aqeeda, the fard ayns of fiqh, and
any necessary tazkiat (this is different from individual
to individual). I didnt know proper purification, I knew
nothing about aqeeda, and they would never mention tazkiat.
God forbid we mention anything that resembles tassawuf!
To make a long story short, the Islamic education I received
was not worth a tenner, so to speak. And not to speak
of all the tuition money.
"secular" education I could have received in
high school (I will concede to having received some pretty
decent elementry education) was nothing compared to what
I learned in IB. I asked a 9th grader in UAF to write
250 words about his life and he could not. I wrote a 300
word essay in the five minuet passing period to a class
(the do date was the due date in IB). You can make any
conclusion you want about that. That matters less later
on because UAF outsources their high school education
to USF anyway. I found that non-UAF freshmen in college
are consistently more educated then the UAF graduates.
The UAF graduates who are serious about their studies
are able to catch up.
finally there are the notorious disciplinary problems.
Everyone knows everyone's dad so no one gets in trouble.
This has terrible implications for when they get into
the real world. They have no regard for the rules.
Ibraheem Shakfeh said,
February 12, 2006 at 6:26 pm · Edit
I forgot to mention anything about the weekly dars, oh
my! I have this great Sheikh who I study jurisprudence
with. While I was in UAF and even after it, I didnt know
what fiqh was so I just spent weeks of just reading quraan.
Reading quraan is a great form of worship but if I tried
to receive knowledge, that would have been better. But
I didnt know the Islamic ruling on that because I went
to an Islamic school.
February 13, 2006 at 10:51 pm · Edit
think it has to do more with the educational content than
anything else. A Shaykh here lamented that "the problem
of Muslims is that they want to build schools, yet put
no effort in to developing a good curriculum to teach
inside the walls!". I think he is correct.
echoes something that Tariq Ramadan mentioned when he
was here - that a parallel education system to teach Islam
specific things may actually be more beneficial than trying
to set up something to rival the state-sponsored school
am tending more towards this approach in my thoughts right
Asma Um Abdullah said,
February 14, 2006 at 5:30 pm · Edit
is interesting to read. I always thought that UAF was
good but now I see I that thought that because the students
were so young when they entered USF. Now looking back
a few things start to make sense.
older than you guys and I have a child who will be school
age next year. I really dont know what do, looks like
I'll be homeschooling at first.
do think putting a Muslim child in a non-Muslim public
middle/highschool seems really risky to me. Of course
it depends on the parents but how many kids have knowledgable
parents who are as involved as they should be. I think
lots of Muslim kids get lost in the Public school system
because its extremely hard to be different at the age
when you just want to fit in. Especially boys, they seem
to be most at risk IMHO. Ultimately I see lots of Muslim
kids just assimilating or living dual lives.
its interesting to see your comments in support of public
school for older kids.
February 14, 2006 at 8:13 pm · Edit
just want to clarify a few things about my post:
I am not saying that Islamic schools produce bad crop
nor am I supporting public school necessarily.
Really, the bottom line and my point was that there is
no correlation between going to an Islamic school and
being religious. This is not because of the concept of
Islamic school in and of itself but rather how Muslims
are establishing and running the schools.
I have nothing against Islamic schools per se, simply
how they are being organized and the lack of education-
both secular and religious.
I want to reiterate that putting the young children in
Islamic school can be very beneficial. I think it would
be the same for older children if Islamic schools were
set up better.
you all for your constructive comments
Abdullah: Do I know you by chance?:) Are you from Tampa?
Asma Um Abdullah said,
February 14, 2006 at 9:45 pm · Edit
see your points. Yes most communities don't take Islamic
schools seriously and they lack the support they need.
I guess ultimately the answer is really in the parenting
because Muslim children can survive any environment with
highly involved parents. I mean involved in everything
from secular education to Islamic education. I think many
Muslim parents just think you send them to school and
the teachers will take care of everything.
don't think I've ever met you. . I lived in Tampa, gosh,
almost 7 years ago now. During my nomadic college days
I attended grad school at USF. Anyway I was there when
Ranya, Najia, Jenan etc were there. I guess you were probably
in middle school then. Gosh I feel really old now
February 14, 2006 at 10:47 pm · Edit
you know me! I went to school with those same people.
Jenan is only like one year older than me or something.
I that old?
February 15, 2006 at 1:17 am · Edit
pretty much know everyone and their mother I
know Ranya, Najia, and Jenan.. and their mothers :p
you go to the minara program with Shaykh Hamza and Imam
Zaid last november?
h. ahmed said,
February 15, 2006 at 1:28 am · Edit
Went to a Public School for my Elementary, Middle, High,
Undergraduate, and now Graduate school, and i turned out
Asma Um Abdullah said,
February 16, 2006 at 11:33 am · Edit
I think I might have left your freshman year. I was only
there for a year, I think 1998-1999. Its all a blur. There
was a sister named Jennifer, I think, who became Muslim
when I was there but she was an engineering major or something
and had a twin sister. I don't think thats you.
I know you griped a little about the USF-MSA but I really
liked those sisters and brothers. The sisters definitely
helped me to becoming more serious about the deen and
were really nice to me. Especially Ranya and the Kurdi
family. May Allah bless them.
did go to a Minara Program but it was here in Houston.
I haven't been back to Tampa since I left USF.
February 16, 2006 at 11:52 am · Edit
Oooh, you live in Houston, I thought you were here. I
apologize if I offended you about MSA
I don't have
a problem with MSA specifically, I have a problem with
the way it is run now. Over the past couple of months
it has gotten a little better, but for the past 1.5 years
, there were issues I guess.. during the Kurdis, the MSA
was a lot better.